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Arlecchino
2 years ago

Hello,

in any case, it is a shortened three-tone, i.e. a three-tone in which the basic tone is missing.

b – e – g:
Fully it would be c – e – g – b, so the c is missing. A Dominantseptaccord on c with the Septime in the bass, leads to F major or f minor.

ais – e – g:
Would be completely fis – ais – cis – e – g, it is missing fis and ais. A (abbreviated) Dominant-Sept-Nonen-Akkord on fis, leads to H major or h minor.

LG
alecquinone

Addendum:
The tones h – e – g would be e-moll, then it would be 2.contact.

verreisterNutzer
2 years ago
Reply to  Arlecchino

Hi, could you please edit your answer if possible and change the address? For anonymity…

Willy1729
2 years ago

Hello,

E-G-B would be a reduced triad with Grundton E.

B-E-G would then be the second reversal.

e minor would be E-G-H, E-Dur E-Gis-H.

Best regards,

Willy

zalto
2 years ago

This is a reduced triad on E.
Common spellings are Em−5, Emb., Edim or E°.

verreisterNutzer
2 years ago
Reply to  zalto

Thank you. -5 and not -7? How does that happen?

c7sus4
2 years ago

2 3 4 5 6 7
E F G A H C D
The H, which is lowered to B, is the 5, not the 7 (that would be D).

Arlecchino
2 years ago

zaltos description follows the Stage theory, which denotes the ‘naked’ chords, without their harmonious meaning and without their harmonious function. It does not describe harmonic relationships.
It is questionable by the spelling (Em−5, Emb.) to bring this chord near e-moll, because with e-moll he definitely has nothing to do.

In Functional theory (my answer) the being and the harmonious meaning of the chords are described.

zalto
2 years ago

A three-tone sound has Grundton, Terz and Quinte.
With Septime, it would be a quadrant. It can now be speculated that it could also be a C7 that lacks the C or the like, but that would have to be derived from the overall harmonic relationship in the piece.

c7sus4
2 years ago

Well, then “Subdominant-Sextakkord” (in principle, after Rameau it is possible to use the term “sixte ajoutée” only in the case of plagal closure). But a function-theoretical interpretation as a subdominant is possible.
But in any case, zalto has the right to know the context of the chord in order to decide whether it is a C7 without a ground tone or a Gm6 without a quinte.

Arlecchino
2 years ago

Reduced and excessive three-length are dissonant, but harmonious.

I don’t know that distinction. Are there sources for this?

Consonance -> Summation -> Wohlklang
Dissonance -> Dissounding sound -> Missing sound

harmonic -> belong to the Dur minor Harmony

The quinte can be missing at the “sixte ajoutée” chord. I also wrote S6, not S56.

That’s not right.

‘Sixte ajoutée’ is a shortening of the term ‘Accord de la sixte ajoutée’ introduced by Rameau, in German: Accord (with) the added Sexte.

Hugo Riemann has distinguished three subdominal chords:
– the ‘simple’ subdominant with the quinte (S),
– the subdominant with sexte the Quinte (subdominant sextakkord, S6)
– and the subdominant with Quinte and Sexte (subdominal Quintsextakkord, S56).
Only the last one called Riemann ‘Sixte ajoutée’.

I don’t own the work of painters. The fact that painters have called the subdominant sex monk as ‘sixte ajoutée’ – historically incorrect, linguistically insane and deviating from Riemann – I doubt very much.
And even if it should be, I follow Rameau and Riemann, because a nonsensical term can only confuse, not describe.

c7sus4
2 years ago

Reduced and excessive three-length are dissonant, but harmonious.

I don’t know that distinction. Are there sources for this?

No. Subdominant is possible. Sixte ajoutée is not the subdominant with QuinteandSexte, S56That’s what the Quinte is missing.

The quinte can be missing at the “sixte ajoutée” chord. I also wrote S6, not S56.

https://www.matthies-koehn.de/harmonielehre/html/sixteajoute.html

Wilhelm Maler: “Contribution to the Durmolltonal Harmony Teaching”, p. 14

“Instead of being added to the complete subdominant triad, the sexte can also replace the quinte (S6)”

Arlecchino
2 years ago

Also in reverses and other layers, the sounds of a trio are still called Grundton, Terz and Quinte.

If they all exist. b – e – g is in the function theory a three sound without a basic tone: Terz, Quinte and Septime when it is related to the basic tone C.

All sounds with 3 tones, which can be traced back to the basic position layered in 2 terces, are three sounds, not harmonic as the reduced or excessive three sound.

Reduced and excessive three-length are dissonant, but harmonious.

A reduced triad e-g-b can also be the II. Stage in d-moll…

Yeah.

then would not be a C7

Maybe yes, maybe no.
In d-moll it can be the intermediate dome to the tonic parallel – i.e. C7.

but a subdominant (by function theory sixte ajoutée, S6).

No. Subdominant is possible. Sixte ajoutée is not the subdominant with Quinte and Sexte, S56That’s what the Quinte is missing.

c7sus4
2 years ago

Also in reverses and other layers, the sounds of a trio are still called Grundton, Terz and Quinte. All sounds with 3 tones, which can be traced back to the basic position layered in 2 terces, are three sounds, not harmonic as the reduced or excessive three sound. The rest aren’t three sounds.
A reduced triad e-g-b can also be the II. Stage in d-moll, then it would not be a C7 but a subdominant (by function theory sixte ajoutée, S6).
So there is not only a possibility of functional theoretical arrangement.

Arlecchino
2 years ago

A three-tone sound has Grundton, Terz and Quinte.

That’s wrong. A three-tone is defined as a harmonic sound of three tones. There must not be 1st and 3rd and 5th stages.

With Septime, it would be a quadrant.

No. Whether it’s a three-tone or four-tone, depends solely on the number of tones, not on their function.

It can now be speculated that it could also be a C7 that lacks the C or the like.

That’s not right either. Within the Dur-Moll-Harmony these chords can be clearly identified and described. My answer is a description of the chord, no speculation.