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Rapunzel324
2 years ago

Every woman has the right to abortion because it is her own body. In Germany, the time limit is fixed, with consultation – without penalty. Interruptions of Gravidity due to medical and criminal indication are also considered criminal. Above all, the moral lobe should not be curbed if one does not know the motives of the woman. https://www.familieplanung.de/pregnantity conflict/pregnantity aborting/pregnantity aborting-law-indications-and-terms/

Styria
2 years ago

Every woman has to agree with her conscience, but one should not consider abortion as something normal as the passage to the dentist.

Unfortunately, however, the whole subject is pressed in this direction.

I myself wouldn’t run away, I couldn’t live with killing my own child.

Whoever has sex must always count on the consequences.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago
Reply to  Styria

The consequence can be torn off.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

No, that’s a consequence of an unwanted pregnancy.

you don’t like that, but you just don’t mind and you don’t have the right to judge a woman or to prescribe what she does with her body

MaxMusterman249
2 years ago

Until the 13th SSW and then only with strict indication.

So, as the law requires.

Elli113
2 years ago

In Germany abortion is up to the completed 14th. SSW (=12 weeks after fertilization) possible without punishment.

Elli113
2 years ago

I’m not “for” abortion. I’m for enlightenment and prevention, so it doesn’t have to be done.

Nevertheless, I can accept that sometimes a woman becomes unintentionally pregnant and, for reasons I have not to judge, wants abortion and then it is also “ok”.

In principle, I do not consider a ban on abortion to be a target.

Just because abortions are forbidden, that doesn’t mean there is no one. They then exist abroad or under medical, or hygienic, questionable circumstances. When the star published his famous “we have driven off” title story in 1971, 374 women have admitted publicly to have driven away even though it was completely illegal in Germany. (Yes, okay, 373 – Alice Schwarzer doesn’t count, she lied, I know).

After all, in a large German study, about one third of the unintentional pregnant women admitted to have been prevented. A third! Among those who are completely unintentionally pregnant, there are even 42% (source:Women’s life3, p. 183) So rarely is it that you get pregnant despite contraception.

There are women who just don’t want a child. And sterilization is even more difficult to get for childless women of a childless age than a affordable crib space in the aeration room. Then there is also not even a small number of women who simply cannot afford reliable contraceptives such as pill or spiral. What are they doing? Sustainability, clear. But if they are in a relationship and the partner “requires his right”?

It’s like this: you have a conflict of rights in this issue.

On the one hand, the woman and her rights and on the other is the unborn. In any case where there is a collision of different rights, it is necessary to consider which right weighs harder. A compromise is not possible in abortion.

I personally have a problem with the view that the unborn should be more important than the woman in which it grows. How far are you going? Can pregnant women not drive anymore because this could be dangerous for the unborn? Can pregnant women no longer enter a pub to be protected from passive smoke? How many rights of pregnant women can one limit to protect the unborn maximum?

With regard to the deadline, I think three months long enough to be able to determine pregnancy and make a well-considered decision.

I look forward to any unnecessary abortion. But sometimes, for reasons that I do not want to judge, it is the only way for those concerned. And this way should be available legally and under reasonable conditions.

“Adoption” point:

There are around 1300 foreign ad options per year in Germany. The number of adopted couples has fallen by 40% over the last 10 years because more and more couples can get their own child thanks to medical progress. Currently there are about 5 adoption-willing couples per child. On the other hand, about 100,000 abortions per year are falling. (Source:https://www.destatis.de/DE/Press/Press Releases/2022/06/PD22_261_22.html)

So it is completely obvious that there would not be a dear family for every child if these children were all born.

DundF
2 years ago

I personally can’t recommend an abortion. Because all involved can become losers.

The mother is taken the chance to know and love her child.

With this to build and feel their future, I will use it. For someone I am the most important person in the world.

The child is taken the opportunity to experience the facets of life, which we naturally enjoy every day.

The environment never has the chance to get to know a unique person who has his gifts and borders that would have made the world brighter and richer.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago
Reply to  DundF

What if the mother didn’t do that?

will you force her to love her child?

very romantic idea but with reality it has nothing to do

Neungott
2 years ago

In principle (except for exceptions)

GeneralCCCP
2 years ago

I think that every woman should be driven off as it is her body and therefore should be her right to abort

Stellwerk
2 years ago

Should be the last means of choice, but the choice should be possible.

Otilie1
2 years ago

every woman can decide for herself – for example: did not want a child from a rapist or would not want a disabled child – the sufferers are always the children

girl2207
2 years ago

If it’s legal and if it’s not legal, women will look for other ways that are very dangerous.

RealGameMaster
2 years ago

Should be legal. Better for the mother and the child.

Shany
2 years ago

is always good or bad

Should be legal

Drossar
2 years ago

I’m strictly opposed, and if a woman would make such a decision without a good reason, she would be through with me below. My opinion.

Otilie1
2 years ago
Reply to  Drossar

Who decides if there is a good reason?

Drossar
2 years ago
Reply to  Otilie1

Good reason would be a pregnancy by rape in my case.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago
Reply to  Drossar

And what a good reason is, do you decide?

Drossar
2 years ago
Reply to  Wolpertinger

As I then think about this person, I actually decide.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

No child is killed.

It will be an embryo that has neither a consciousness nor a feeling of pain, and has no chance of survival outside the body of the woman.

and why should the woman want to have a role in your life if you do not fully accept it?

Serenety78
2 years ago

It’s not a child!

Toni2023
2 years ago

Is it not a child, but a fetus that is not viable. 2. “to everything ready” is a fictional and unfounded opinion.

Drossar
2 years ago

If a person wants to play a role in my life, then she must. A person who simply kills his child is ready for everything.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

with which right?

and why do you think a woman has to justify herself before you?

twinax
2 years ago

Every woman must decide for herself!

Monitorsuche
2 years ago

A normal medical procedure.

As it is now regulated, it’s okay.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago
Reply to  Monitorsuche

I do not find the current regulation in Germany in order.

It is a criminal offence for both the woman and the doctor, which is only criminally free under certain conditions.

The forced consultation and the forced maintenance time are not okay.

which pregnant women have to wait for compulsory consultation and then 4 days to be allowed to implement the decision?

TimWWW
2 years ago

It was only possible in exceptional cases (e.g. rape, or miserable economic situation of parents).

Wolpertinger
2 years ago
Reply to  TimWWW

Why?

What is this double moral?

TimWWW
2 years ago
Reply to  Wolpertinger

What double moral?

Elli113
2 years ago
Reply to  TimWWW

miserable economic situation of parents

Isn’t that pretty cynical? That the parents will not be able to afford a child, you will be valid, but that a woman does not want a child, doesn’t she?

The unborn of people in financial difficulties also has a right of life.

(e.g. rape)

Why? The child can’t do anything for the circumstances of his birth.

So if you already argue with the right of the unborn to life, I can’t understand your exceptions.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

Paragraph 218 looks different than you.

It clearly sets out that women’s mental, physical and economic health is more important.

Since you value democracy and its laws so much, you should accept it and stop putting misinformation into the world.

the parents are free?

Well, let’s hold that most men just get out of the dust in an unwanted pregnancy.

They don’t care.

And let’s hold that someone who is unintentionally pregnant is unintentionally pregnant.

And if you are unintentionally pregnant, then usually no adoption is the solution.

Because then the woman still has to be unintentionally pregnant with all the consequences and her life with these consequences.

it is simply indifferent to the embryo whether it lives or not.

It has no consciousness!

TimWWW
2 years ago

You’re degrading a woman to the nest box.

No, I’m right against each other. If that’s a problem for you, and you’re going to ask me things that don’t vote, you’re unfortunately wrong in a democracy.

Do you think it has no effect on a woman to have an unwanted pregnancy to endure a birth?

Yes, unfortunately it has an effect. However, I believe that it is not possible to justify annihilation of the growing life.

To have to take the risk of dying during and at birth?

Well, the unborn dies 100% in this procedure. The woman has an extremely low risk of dying.

Moreover, parents are free to give their child free for adoption, or to no longer have to worry about it.

There is no right to life for the embryo

But there is. You can live in your dream world, but the right is still there. Or do you decide what right is wrong?

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

You’re degrading a woman to the nest box.

Do you think it has no effect on a woman to have an unwanted pregnancy to endure a birth?

To have to take the risk of dying during and at birth?

with the life-long physical psychological and economic consequences that an unwanted pregnancy brings to life?

And what happens to the child after birth?
Do you take them all and take them up lovingly?

or is that no matter, main thing born?

There is no right to life for the embryo

TimWWW
2 years ago

Where am I giving the woman her right to life?
Otherwise, you shouldn’t argue legally if you have no idea anyway. Of course the embryo is entitled to the same.

You can also read here:

https://www.bundestag.de/resource/blob/592130/21e336d47580c1faa15dbe23d999b62c/WD-7-256-18-pdf-data.pdf

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

There is no right to life for the embryo at this stage of pregnancy.

At this stage of pregnancy, only one has the right to life and that is the woman.

and if you want to deny her this right, it is not only argumentatively very weak but human despising.

TimWWW
2 years ago

Unborn life is also the right to life.

If you want to enter this right with such a weak reason as “I don’t want the child”, then the argumentative is really very weak.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

In rape, it’s in order, but not if the woman just doesn’t want children.

this is a double moral

Andrastor
2 years ago

Belongs to the fundamental rights of women and should therefore never be debated. In countries such as Germany, a pregnant woman who is banned from abortion has fewer rights than a body. You have to be aware of that.

TimWWW
2 years ago
Reply to  Andrastor

The right to life is also the unborn child. You can think of what you want, it’s a fact anyway.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago
Reply to  TimWWW

It is not a child but an embryo

Not viable outside the body of the woman

Without consciousness

without feeling pain

if you approve this embryo a higher value of life than the Frsu, you simply degrade the woman to a breeding box.

That’s human despicable

Andrastor
2 years ago
Reply to  TimWWW

In this case, however, the right to self-sufficiency speaks. No person may be forced to dispense body parts and body components, even if their own health would be at risk.

If I’m bleeding, you can’t be forced to donate blood. You have the right to deny that, completely free of punishment, even if I bite into the grass.

Not even the organs of a corpse can be removed in Germany if the corpse, when it has still lived, did not agree to the withdrawal by means of an organ donation card.

And all this, according to your opinion (as I accept your contribution), is no longer valid for pregnant women. The unborn child is given preference over the rights of the mother and the mother is passed over. She then has less rights than a body.

But only until the child is in the world. Then it can be scraped off without any doubt and everyone can refuse the donations.

This opinion does not make any sense legally or human.

Elli113
2 years ago

For example, as a man, you usually have to pay aliments that can drive you into economic ruin.

No. The maintenance depends on income and there is a self-sufficiency limit. And: In the end, both parents always pay maintenance, only the one where the child lives, in naturalia. So rent, food and so on. Only asks NIEMAND for self-sufficiency with this parent.

It is therefore quite cynical to compare the physical and psychological consequences of pregnancy and childbirth, followed by part-time cases and arrogance, with maintenance payments – which, by the way, is no later than 25 years.

Just as an example: A traumatic birth, on the other hand, affects the rest of life.

In Germany approx. 30% of all births of imperial cuts, i.e. a massive, large abdominal surgery with any amount of possible late sequences (cheeks, convulsions, impaired function of the ovaries, infertility, wound pain, increased risk of a placenta accreta,…) and complications (pulmonary embolism, severe blood loss, thrombosis, …) At the rest of the births, about 30% of the cases are made a dam cut – i.e. the tissue between vagina and after is cut through. It is also not so rare that the tissue tears by itself when the child’s head runs its way.

The pelvic floor is heavily stressed by pregnancy and birth. In a British study, 38% of women interviewed were still 12(!) Years after the first birth to have a persistent (permanent) incontinence. Imagine what that means: you can’t laugh, cough or bounce without peeing a few drops.

Not less than 85 percent of all vaginal-born women have to expect any injury to their genitals, overstretching and demolition of the supporting muscles and connective tissue plates of the pelvic floor, or even the tearing of the closing muscles of the end intestine, an overview work from 2015 is calculated.

The spectrum ranges from superficial dam cracks, for example, on the labia or the vaginal mucosa, which frequently heal untreated again, to deep dam cracks, which go transversely through the pelvic floor and in the worst case also reach the anal channel.

As a consequence of the birth trauma and the weakened pelvic floor, inner organs such as the uterus can later project outwards through the vagina, or the bladder, for example, worships the vaginal wall and presses into the vagina. Further impairments are urinary incontinence or loss of control over the intestinal muscles, which is accompanied by unwelcome leaving of winds or liquid-lubricated to even solid chair – a so-called fecal incontinence.

If the woman really dies, and this is secure,

This is never secured in the sense of “to 100%”.

Let’s take the HELLP syndrome. The motherly lethality here is 3 to 5%. Heavy maternal complications must be expected from 12.5 to 65% of cases. In the case of liver eruption, maternal letality is up to 50%. The problem: the cause is unexplained, it hits more (but not only) younger women and mostly (but not always) first-born and the course is incalculable. Grob said, everyone can meet.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

You are so arrogant and self-hearted

inconceivable.

Do you really think the only risk a woman is going to die through a pregnancy?

Even if it is a normal complicationless pregnancy, the body inevitably hurts with which the woman has to live for her life.

Not to mention the psychological damage that the woman experiences through an unwanted pregnancy?

thought about it?

Not apparent

TimWWW
2 years ago

You live is the only thing that is worth protecting and as clear and clear as you can represent this here is not.

But it is irrefutable that unborn human life has rights.
And I just disagree. The life of the embryo is also a potential life, and therefore does not matter.

But you do not have the right to put the embryo on the life of all women

I put the life of the embryo not about the life of the woman, but about it a decision. And that’s hard because the decision is serious. But I think that every life is worth living.

And you have no right to judge whether a woman is abducted or not.

Of course I have that and everyone else. Condemning, that is to say potentially making criticism, is something completely legitimate in a democracy.
If I smoke, then JEDER has the right to criticize me and to judge how he finds it (I really don’t smoke). A ban on smoking is also a completely legitimate proposal that others can bring, OBWOHL I will be restricted in my right of self-determination. (This is of course something completely different, but the principle is the same).

Actually, as a man, you have no right to judge.

That’s what I’m gonna do. Maybe next time you think before you write that.

Because your life is not endangered by the unwanted sxhwangership

Of course! For example, as a man, you usually have to pay aliments that can drive you into economic ruin.
Births are very safe in Germany (pregnancies also). If the woman really dies, and this is secure, then it is life against life and no longer the mere decision. Ergo should be allowed to take the woman away.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

Of course, everyone is allowed to get pregnant and, of course, every woman is allowed to decide against pregnancy.

You live is the only thing that is worth protecting and as clear and clear as you can represent this here is not.

and you still haven’t understood it, you can make my what you want and you should ever get pregnant unintentionally (does not feel possible) you can make your decision for you.

But you do not have the right to put the embryo on the life of all women

And you have no right to judge whether a woman is abducted or not.

Actually, as a man, you have no right to judge.

Because your life is not endangered by the unwanted sxhwangership

TimWWW
2 years ago

But your Doppemmoral is too cowardly, pregnant can everyone become, everyone can do with his child and leave what he wants.

Of course, every pregnant woman can be, but not everyone can do with his child and leave what he wants! There are clear (even legal) limits that no one is allowed to cross.

I didn’t say that again.

This shows only one, the non-viable embryo, without consciousness without feeling pain is important to you.

Feeling people don’t care

No, it only shows that I am becoming, and potential human life is NOT irrelevant. You do.

For the Federal Constitutional Court “is living in the sense of the historical existence of a human individual according to more secure biophysiological Knowledge of the 14th day after conception (Nidation, Individuation). ‘

Even if the woman is circumcised here in her right of self-determination, one has to wonder if the woman’s freedom stops where she circumcises the life and freedom of another.

It’s hard to evaluate, and I can understand your opinion, because there is no awareness and feeling of pain. But it weighs life, against the right of self-determination.
But please don’t confuse me for my opinion, that’s Albern.

In the end, this should be resolved democratically and in a factual discussion.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

I don’t have a concept.

It’s not mine either.

But your Doppemmoral is too cowardly, pregnant can everyone become, everyone can do with his child and leave what he wants.

But for an abortion that does not harm anyone from the woman himself and even that is not the case in most cases, do you require high hurdles?

This shows only one, the non-viable embryo, without consciousness without feeling pain is important to you.

Feeling people don’t care

TimWWW
2 years ago

And if I look at how many parents there are who are not able to be parents, then maybe you should put some hurdles in there.

And how would there be a concept?

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

It’s my body, my life, my risk.

And so no one has to decide

I don’t decide if I can get kids.

And if I look at how many parents there are who are not able to be parents, then maybe you should put some hurdles in there.

TimWWW
2 years ago

Your assumption is only limited to my statements.

I would also be willing to reach a consensus. The question is how easy should an abortion be?

Just as it is, it sounds like the generation of a membership for the gym. (I know this is very simplified)

There is still a life behind it, which is not the least guilty of all.

If you’re abortion, you’re supposed to be raising hurdles. But you’re against it.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

Your expressions that protect the life of a fetus more than that of a feeling, thinking, conscious woman is despicable.

I’ve already written this to you several times.

you either seem cognitively unable to understand that or you don’t want to understand it.

Oh, and I’m sure you’re gonna slap around that you didn’t say that….

blablablabala…

TimWWW
2 years ago

I have repeated your rhetoric and said how abhorrent words like “breasts” are synonymous with pregnant women. That was EUER, not mine.

TimWWW
2 years ago

No, but I don’t call you self-Glorifying. I accept your opinion.

One single question that would have simplified our entire discussion at the beginning:

Is there any opinion that can be against abortion that you could accept? Or is one abortion criterion = human despicable? (A factual answer would be very friendly)

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

Nice to keep your rhetoric

It’s always beautiful how someone like yourself leads as a absurdity

TimWWW
2 years ago

Harassed? So slowly I’m getting too colorful. Because of a ridiculous FA that had the purpose of a discussion?

Because of a FA, you put yourself in the sacrificial role and throw it on the same train.

Your rhetoric consists of words such as “women are nesting boxes” and the conscious misinterpretation of my statements. That’s all you can say.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

No, only you eat wisdom with spoons.

TimWWW
2 years ago

And you’re despicable. An unborn life is also life that would simply destroy without any consideration.

Women are not “grooves”. You say that, not me.

I’m self-Glorifying? You know the definition of the words you choose?

Andrastor
2 years ago

Really sad. But such individuals are often found here.

In my opinion, you had much more patience with him/her than me.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

I’m not patient. When he harassed me by FA, I had to hold back to not answer that border crossing accordingly.

But he is so caught in his bladder that he can’t see how disgusting his statements are.

And now he stylises himself to our victims, who dismay him and misunderstand him.

His rhetoric is easy to puke

Andrastor
2 years ago

I also admire your patience.

Wolpertinger
2 years ago

I’ve already explained what makes you human despicable.

you should have understood that now.

If you don’t understand that you’re doing women to hate box with your opinion, and you don’t understand what is human despising about your statements, then you can’t help yourself in your self-righteousness and self-glorification.