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Schemset
1 year ago

No, not really.

First of all, you have to consider the temporal sequence. Only Egypt, then Judaism, then Rome. And you let out the Babylonians…

Very rough (i.e. these are not “real” annual figures but rounded indicative values):

In the late Bronze Age, 3500 years ago to 3000 years ago, the cultures and city states of the Levante were in a field of tension between Egypt in the southwest, and the competing kingdoms of the Mitanni and Hethither in the northeast. “Jewishness” did not exist yet, but the societies and cultures from which Judaism later developed.

They were partly under Egyptian rule, but the Egyptians never tried to enforce their religion and culture there – they were only on tributes, raw materials and partly labour.

This era is actually very interesting culturally – finds from the Sinai and from the Wadi El Hol show first evidence of an alphabet that was developed from the hieroglyphs. Whether the idea of monotheism was taken over by the Egyptians, I may not judge, but Egyptian wisdom texts and hymns have left clear traces in the Old Testament – a cultural exchange was definitely taking place.

About 3000 years ago, the situation changed. Egypt lost power, the other great kingdoms of the Bronze Age collapsed, and in the space of Israel/Palestine their own states could develop. This could be the historical origin of the biblical kingdom of David – but it was rather not that great or long-lasting.

The real birth of Judaism – at least today’s state of research – did not come through victory and independence, but by defeating the new Great and the Babylonian exile about 2500 years ago. (more than 2580, but we want to keep it simple). But as soon as a Persian dynasty took power, the Jewish elite was allowed to return, rebuild Jerusalem and then continued as a Persian province.

The Romans then only appeared in the Levante about 2000 years ago. By the destruction of the 2nd temple, however, they also had a decisive influence on the Jewish identity. (Stop a Jewish man after the lawsuit)

akesipalisa
1 year ago

The Israeli archaeologists Finkelstein & Silberman could not find any archaeological evidence of an ancient Jewish high culture (e.g. from the Old Testament mentioned kingdom of David and then Solomon).

From an ancient tombstone on whose weathered inscription the consonants DWD should have been readable (for “David”), there is only a replica of the 18th century. Century, that’s all. Nothing has been found of the allegedly 70 fortified cities with a network of connecting roads from the kingdom of David.

IlanRoman
1 year ago

In the high phase of a state, social, religious and cultural order and constitution, Judaism in the structure of the iron-time state of Israel will be considered a high culture in the cultural space of the Levante.

Schemset
1 year ago
Reply to  IlanRoman

Well, that depends on the definition of “high culture”…

tanztrainer1
1 year ago

The Jews developed further when they were able to escape from the slavery of the Egyptians.

In my opinion, the Egyptians, then the Jews and Greeks, were only after the Romans.

Schemset
1 year ago
Reply to  tanztrainer1

The escape from Egypt is NO historically occupied process!

tanztrainer1
1 year ago
Reply to  Schemset

You have to read the text carefully.

It’s just that the escape didn’t happen as it was in the AT. It doesn’t mean that she didn’t even happen.

tanztrainer1
1 year ago

You don’t have to explain.

Not without reason, Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt with Jesus.

שָׁ coloring

Schemset
1 year ago

Yes, but “the Jews” were never collected in the “slavery” of the Egyptians, the migration movements were much more complicated. It went back and forth for centuries. Immigrants and prisoners of war came to Egypt, former hostages and labor migrants returned to the Levante. The next to such a proven slavery is probably Amenophis II in the 18th Dynasty – there are textbooks about mass-delayed prisoners. Then, however, the temporal sequence does not fit, for if the Jews (if one can call them Jews) were fled from Egypt in the following centuries, they had landed directly in the Egyptian province. The Egyptian influence continued until the 20th Dynasty.

I think the Exodus story connects several traditional events and experiences to a single narrative. But this narrative completely fails that the influence of Egypt did not end at Sinai.

Nofear20
1 year ago

Well, the comparison with the Romans or Egyptians could not withstand the small goat brain population.

RAIN1118
2 months ago
Reply to  Nofear20

At first I find the comparison, or Rome & Egypt in the same set to use extremely inappropriate before I compare Israel vs. Egypt, would shear.. As much as we want to sell Egypt as a high culture, it was not much more than a “Ziegenhirtenvolk”, as did Egypt – Rames hin, Ramses – also not a particularly successful dispute power. Egypt has kept itself for a very long time over 3000 years are already noticeable. But I couldn’t recognize a high culture there. For me, this is a quarry with field, and my perception works excellent. It has just been enough for the size of a traditional “country”, and even in very short exceptional situations. Most of the time Egypt had only the size of a “half” country, and it was exactly that. What the “I want to become God” urged the “Pharanks” came to me is completely obscure. Not even against the Hittites. from the perserns, Egypt has already received enormously. Also I could not find particularly remarkable buildings there. For some very nice, oversized stone statues, it was so good, but the often mentioned “pallets” (in the case of a very misleading name) I did not see a single one there. I can’t explain what’s so great about the ridiculous, ugly pyramid pile. Achitectonic are the things = garbage. Even if there’s no complexity, there’s a stupid gang going down. I have no understanding of why such an ugly plump stone pile explains to a “world miracle – especially when you look at yourself in the Vergelcih, which was otherwise strangely NOT declared a world miracle. Why a few banal murals are so highly praised: “Boaaaahh, fully developed”, even though it was nothing more developed than it was already 100,000 years earlier towards the Stone Age, only for a development step in the Scriptures. I have never seen a city there, over the 3000 years the state of development of architecture has always remained the same (namely GAR NOW) and you have to wonder how degenerated a people must be if in 3 millennia it doesn’t even get the slightest furz change regarding fashion on the chain. After 3000 years and the stone barracks, the people still looked exactly the same stone age as 3000 years before. It doesn’t want to get in my head, why you want to make such a sensation from Egypt, and why the masonry is so crazy and desirous of the Egyptians – I don’t understand.
From Babylonia I also no longer hold and from the Persians too. If you can begin to talk soo slowly towards a high culture at all, then that’s what Greece is about.
Architecturally and of the order of magnitude it becomes very interesting for me only from ROM, which can be really serious about language & writing, and in Rome Egypt also fits very easy ma just into the pocket.
..but do not hope for a world miracle in Rome for God’s sake.. Nönööö, the Romans were unfortunately not versed enough to smite some ugly stones, as in Egypt. It is necessary to understand that there is no wonder in the world.

Nofear20
2 months ago
Reply to  RAIN1118

That’s a big contribution.

Bricoleur
1 year ago

It’s still.

Tennis92927
1 year ago

Judaism is not a religion

Judaism is derived fromYahudha

The prophet Jacob peace and blessing with him had 12 sons, and one of them was Yahudha (Judah) and Yahudha had descendants,People who came after him they were called Jews, that is a tribal name and not a religious name

Viktor1
1 year ago
Reply to  Tennis92927

that is a tribal name

just, that’s why you were asked for culture, your attitude is beyond it.

Dafur
1 year ago
Reply to  Tennis92927

Judaism is not a religion

That’s not what the FS said.

——————–

From Judah the children of Israel come down. They are the chosen people of Allah.

He gave you the Holy Land. It is not about religion, it is about the people of Judah.

From the book, theCommunity Expert for ArabicandPalestine Khaled706and the useranlan nucleus:

It is clear in the red places that the Jews (the Israelites, the people of Moses) got the land. ->Jerusalem and the surrounding area

The people of the Jews, these are the “People of the scripture“.

If you want to know more, I would have the link to our previous discussion. The pictures are in the original and slightly sharper.

Tennis92927
1 year ago
Reply to  Dafur

das Heilige Land gegeben

Ich bin auf diese Aussage eingegangen

Den Israeliten wurde vergeben, weil sie vorher Ungläubige waren, die auf dem falschen Weg waren. Dann wurde ihnen vergeben, weil die Offenbarung herabgesandt wurde, danach haben sie das Bund gebrochen, so einfach ist das.

Sure 5 Ayah 20-26

Und (damals) als Moses zu seinem Volke sagte: “O mein Volk, besinnt euch auf Allahs Huld gegen euch, als Er aus eurer Mitte Propheten erweckte und euch zu Königen machte und euch gab, was Er keinem anderen auf der Welt gegeben hat.[5:20]

O mein Volk, betretet das heilige Land, das Allah für euch bestimmt hat, und kehret (Ihm) nicht den Rücken; denn dann werdet ihr als Verlorene umkehren.”[5:21]

Sie sagten: “O Moses, siehe, dort lebt ein tyrannisches Volk, und wir werden es (das Land) nicht betreten, ehe jene es nicht verlassen haben. Doch wenn sie es verlassen, dann wollen wir dort einziehen.”[5:22]

Es sagten zwei Männer von denen, die gottesfürchtig waren, und denen Allah Seine Gnade erwiesen hatte: “Zieht durch das Tor ein und wendet euch gegen sie; seid ihr eingezogen, dann werdet ihr siegreich sein. Und vertraut auf Allah, wenn ihr Gläubige seid.”[5:23]

Sie sagten: “O Moses, nimmermehr werden wir es betreten, solange jene dort sind. Gehe denn du mit deinem Herrn und kämpft; wir bleiben hier sitzen.”[5:24]

Er sagte: “Ich habe nur Macht über mich selbst und meinen Bruder; darum scheide Du uns von dem aufrührerischen Volk.”[5:25]

Er sprach: “Wahrlich, es (das Land) soll ihnen vierzig Jahre lang verwehrt sein; sie sollen auf der Erde umherirren. Und betrübe dich nicht wegen des aufrührerischen Volkes.”

1. Hier steht NIRGENDWO was von Juden

Die Juden von heute haben absolut nichts mit den Juden von damals zu tun, weswegen sie kein Anspruch auf Palestinä haben

2. Werden hier die Israeliten angesprochen und nicht jeder Israelit war ein Gläubiger zum damaligen Zeitpunkt.

3. Die heutigen Juden in Palestinä sind nicht von Bani Israil, nach dem 2.Weltkrieg sind da Juden zugewandert

4. Steht nirgendwo, dass Allah das Land für die Israeliten für IMMER bestimmt hat

Der Prophet Jakob Friede sei mit ihm trug den Namen Israel.

Wie bereits erwähnt

Der Prophet Jakob Friede und Segen mit ihm hatte 12 Söhne gehabt und einer von ihnen hieß Yahudha (Judah) und Yahudha hat Nachfahren gehabt, Leute die nach ihm kamen sie wurden Juden genannt

Tennis92927
1 year ago
Reply to  Dafur

Du wiederholst dich ständig

Den Israeliten wurde vergeben, weil sie vorher Ungläubige waren, die auf dem falschen Weg waren. Dann wurde ihnen vergeben, weil die Offenbarung herabgesandt wurde, danach haben sie das Bund gebrochen, so einfach ist das.

Sure 5 Ayah 20-26

Und (damals) als Moses zu seinem Volke sagte: “O mein Volk, besinnt euch auf Allahs Huld gegen euch, als Er aus eurer Mitte Propheten erweckte und euch zu Königen machte und euch gab, was Er keinem anderen auf der Welt gegeben hat.[5:20]

O mein Volk, betretet das heilige Land, das Allah für euch bestimmt hat, und kehret (Ihm) nicht den Rücken; denn dann werdet ihr als Verlorene umkehren.”[5:21]

Sie sagten: “O Moses, siehe, dort lebt ein tyrannisches Volk, und wir werden es (das Land) nicht betreten, ehe jene es nicht verlassen haben. Doch wenn sie es verlassen, dann wollen wir dort einziehen.”[5:22]

Es sagten zwei Männer von denen, die gottesfürchtig waren, und denen Allah Seine Gnade erwiesen hatte: “Zieht durch das Tor ein und wendet euch gegen sie; seid ihr eingezogen, dann werdet ihr siegreich sein. Und vertraut auf Allah, wenn ihr Gläubige seid.”[5:23]

Sie sagten: “O Moses, nimmermehr werden wir es betreten, solange jene dort sind. Gehe denn du mit deinem Herrn und kämpft; wir bleiben hier sitzen.”[5:24]

Er sagte: “Ich habe nur Macht über mich selbst und meinen Bruder; darum scheide Du uns von dem aufrührerischen Volk.”[5:25]

Er sprach: “Wahrlich, es (das Land) soll ihnen vierzig Jahre lang verwehrt sein; sie sollen auf der Erde umherirren. Und betrübe dich nicht wegen des aufrührerischen Volkes.”

1. Hier steht NIRGENDWO was von Juden

Die Juden von heute haben absolut nichts mit den Juden von damals zu tun, weswegen sie kein Anspruch auf Palestinä haben

2. Werden hier die Israeliten angesprochen und nicht jeder Israelit war ein Gläubiger zum damaligen Zeitpunkt.

3. Die heutigen Juden in Palestinä sind nicht von Bani Israil, nach dem 2.Weltkrieg sind da Juden zugewandert

4. Steht nirgendwo, dass Allah das Land für die Israeliten für IMMER bestimmt hat

Der Prophet Jakob Friede sei mit ihm trug den Namen Israel.

Wie bereits erwähnt

Der Prophet Jakob Friede und Segen mit ihm hatte 12 Söhne gehabt und einer von ihnen hieß Yahudha (Judah) und Yahudha hat Nachfahren gehabt, Leute die nach ihm kamen sie wurden Juden genannt

Dafur
1 year ago

Do you want to say that Tafsir is bad?

Are your scholars wrong?

Dafur
1 year ago

You keep repeating
The Israelites were forgiven because they were previously unbelievers

You have now pasted the wrong text 😊😊😊 .

I didn’t write about “forgot.”

1. NIRGENDWO says something about Jews

You have to clean your glasses… in the first picture on the right J U D E N. And in the middle again. And below they get the holy land.

in the Quran: … وَقَالَتِ ٱلْيَهُودُ وَٱلنَّصَـٰرَٰٰ ناُاْْ ٱاٱٱاٱ ٱلَّهِوَاَاَ

Do you think that word?

And the Jews and the Christians say, “We are the sons of Allah and his favors.”

Every Koran says “Jews”.

You would have known that if you had really researched it.

It’s about JUDEN in the Sure.

I would like to give you the link to the pictures of our earlier discussion:

You can read the backgrounds – also in the Koran Book of User Khaled.