Use organ samples on a normal keyboard?
Hi Arlecchino…. đ or maybe another unexpected knowledgeable person.
I would like to use sacred organ samples in live performances, but I have never dealt with home church organs/virtual organs, keyboards, or computers.
[This probably doesn't matter, or it doesn't matter much, but I might be wrong. I'd like a 4-octave keyboard without a pedalboardâa handy, standard keyboardâperhaps with not-too-tiny keys, but let's seeâI'd prefer inexpensive, standard equipment. I'd like to have a few stops from a chamber organ on it. I was thinkingâjust for exampleâof a maximum of 5 stops, like a Quintadena 8' Principal 4' Octave 2' Flute 4' Regal 8'. It would be important that the resulting sound be relatively dry. So, little or no reverb.]
- Is this easily possible? What kind of keyboard do you need to use such samples and also hear them via in-ear monitoring?
- How do these sample sets work? Can you adjust the reverb and then use that setting on the keyboard?
- How would you set it up and use it? Is it difficult to learn? The thing is, I definitely don't want to do anything else with the keyboardâabsolutely not.
- Where can I find people who know about this if not here?
(1 votes)
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Hello Grobbeldopp,
I'm an organist, and organists are among the most conservative musicians. Until a few years ago, I could be chased away by all this completely unsatisfactory technical stuff. However, technology has advanced, and there are now truly astonishing solutions.
The keyboard
It'll probably end up being something fairly simple with a MIDI connection. Four octaves are spartan, but sufficient for Renaissance music and early Italian music, even up to the Baroque period. No velocity sensitivity! No weighted piano keys! Playing the organ on an electric piano is […] â You can insert an expletive of your choice here.
A computer
Probably with a better sound card, you can find the RAM requirements below.
You can connect headphones or earphones to it, or even an external amplifier with speakers.
Last but not least: The software
You mentioned sample sets. This represents the current state of (virtual/digital) sound technology. Hauptwerk is the first to be mentioned. For this data storage, every single pipe of interesting organs was recorded, including its attack, sustain, and modulation, from various positions in the churches. This makes it possible to use the organ sound alone (bone-dry!) ââor with little or even more room acoustics. If you browse the Hauptwerk website , you'll find a whole range of sample sets, including those of historical organs.
I haven't found any reed stops on the smaller organs, but this one , for example, has a short-beaded reed. The organ is beautiful; I've even played it virtually; the sound is convincing. (The Hauptwerk software allows you to play all stops on one manual.)
There's no sound sample on the Hauptwerk website. But you can listen to the organ in real life and virtually here .
An Italian alternative, small and with a reed voice, would be this one.
You also need the Hauptwerk software, which runs the sample sets. The computer requirements can be found under System (scroll down a bit), and they're high.
Absolutely crazy: You can play all these organs from meantone to equal temperament in 6 (?) different temperaments…
Oh, and I forgot: The operation is done via the computer monitor, which, unlike what we see around us, is self-explanatory.
LG
Arlecchino
I see. Software and computers are the first steps. And without an external computer with sound card and midi connection, nothing goes first.
Such a bite of the Clash I definitely don’t need any of these “small” big organs. I could, of course, take such a thing and not use the majority of it. Or, for example, just the back-positive. With high baroque, of course, you’re right with me. đ
I like the Schnitger organ very well, is also clearly too big but only Praestant 8′ would be enough for me in principle because it is quite colored and works without octaves, thank you, that would not be a change would also be good đ
Also nice but I would probably put on Werckmeister III and never touch.
The thing is kind of- the whole system is for much more than I need.
And I don’t have any money, and there’s no place that’s going to be hard.
I don’t have to play before organ repertoire. This would be accompaniment in the genre folk rock, and, if necessary, an excuse for me being allowed to reinstate 3-4 coherent recorders or Krummhörner on the recording, although this is not going live.
My accordions both go up to c3, and deep down, more often, toners will go to the sack. Evtl. I’d be able to live with only F.
I’m just about to read how they usually are. What I could probably take and what is in my ear is a shelving, so a pure shelves, especially a small positive without shelves. It is important that it doesn’t sound clearly church. Basically, I need something like this:
(14) D. Buxtehude – “Wacht! The Last Judgment, BuxWV Anh. 3 – YouTube
shelf from 3:39
Only, the Continuoorgels are quite blunt and there are no reasons for the catalogue.
What is this, for example – can you do the same in terms of dry and temperatures?
(15) Best FREE Hauptwerk Sampleset – Janke-Organ (III/47) in BĂŒckeburg – Organ Demonstration – Paul Fey – YouTube
Because everything in all I have many instruments that cost a lot of money đ.
When I read about your budget afterwards, I thought that I had some information to get you to the solution. For a serious organ sound, even that of only a few registers, is not obtained without the main work technique or a comparable one – as far as I know.
As far as I have seen this, the predecessor systems are all installed in digital channels. And these are devices that are usually not transportable.
Without the hall it doesn’t do that, you can already think of Portativ in a tavern.
Yeah, that’s it. However, you have a rare customer desire for which it is not worth building an instrument. Well, it’s not worth it for the manufacturers. Digital organ customers usually want a 3-manual instrument with at least 5 sample sets, including at least one romantic instrument like a CavaillĂ©-Coll organ.
But you have very concrete ideas. I would already be interested in what to find and realize in persistent search.
Where you can make yourself smart: Kisselbach (available several times throughout Germany) distributes digital organ from different manufacturers and different price classes. There you can certainly also bring detailed questions to the man.
Anything else,
It is simply also a problem of double-tube leaves, all of which you place the micros live and yes the micros, because one is not enough.
With recorders you can put a microphone over the labium – perfect because the sound comes out.
In all double tubes, depending on the handle, the tone comes from different points on the body and each individual close removal point sounds extremely strange. If you follow the instrument, you can forget that the level is too low everywhere. The hands prevent some micropositions… under the sound cup, most instruments are just a grelle sawing. At the right hole- if there is a big one, the deep sounds sound much louder, that the soundman can solve, but what if he thinks that is normal? And, the level on the tuning hole is not high.
My sack I put the micro in the pipe from below, which prevents grelle rays and is somewhat balanced – but it makes the overblow impossible (can you live with, the historical models couldn’t do that) and I have to change the whistle extra for it. So I can only use it specifically for this….
Double pipes and micros are enemies.
Is there any music group unless you have inhumane happiness.
“Game times: dam tamm tamm dam tamm tamm”
“Ok: TRPFRAMM TRPFRAMM TRPFRAMM ….
PS: â
I had inquired for a complete solution for a puppy at home. As an ‘analoger’, however, I have very concrete ideas, and that is one thing that I will certainly not break over my knee. The prices of the individual components play a minor role: They are as they are and are not variable within an instrument.
At Hauptwerk, the problem seems to me that there are only 3500 customers worldwide. This is still very clear and probably the beginning, which is why prices are still relatively high. On the homepage Hauptwerk offers the basic software for about 500 âŹ.
In the case of laptop it is necessary to note that the memory must be very efficient, and memory can also be paid well by manufacturers.
The Digital Orgelbauer Noorlander in the NL has developed its own system, called ‘Sweelinck’, and requires lower computer performance. However, there is a Only 3 sample sets, and you can’t find them on the net. And whether they would sell it externally is also questionable.
This is the case with me so far.
And I’ve got 30 instruments around here.
With me this is a few less, but among them is a two-manual cembalo to Christian Zell (1728), the most beautiful cembalo in Mecklenburg. đ
Sounds more like a human problem.
What I didn’t think about two years ago. For example, I would never have a boss anymore…
I have an appointment tomorrow morning. On a ‘analogous’ organ from 1722 – medium. That’s why I should get out of the field.
You see…
Well, so if this can be done with a normal midikeyboard and a laptop with an extra sound card and interface (if I need anyway) then the main cost factor would be the software itself? How much is it? Because there are positives for 50 70 euros.
Yup, I thought so.
The problem is simple: I used to play acoustically and I’ve got 30 instruments around here. The needle tube with a full reinforcement on a stage with a loud drum is the microphones and the soundmann. If you have a soundman, you can take all the instruments and play them over singing microphones – where that goes. We didn’t. But, for example, everything about woodwinds except Sax and Krummhorn (Krummhorn is too quiet anyway) needs almost several radio microphones, accordion also at least 2 better 4 (!) and thus is wild rum change history.
2 years ago, I would not have dreamed that accordion would be my favorite instrument… I can’t play it, but it sounds good about micros, that’s not the case with Schalmei, Altpommer or Dudelsack- really not, and flute is good – either you’re tied to the micro or you’re just using one because you don’t want 5 micros again.
And the organ would be the next step- the medium there is somehow before đ the samples will sound 1 A over the plant, perfect- without the constriction micros.
https://www.thomann.de/de/crumar_mojo_61.htm
https://www.thomann.de/en/viscount_legend_solo.htm
Stagepianos like short time SP 5-8 (now there are new models) also have sacral sounds on board.
This has no built-in speakers now. 2 x jack output at best DI Box to cover 2 x XLR channels at the mixing console
IEM wired or also via radio either mono or stereo via one or 2 Aux Pre paths on the mixing console. Ambience Atmo to cut
Clavia Nord must have div. Via MIDI there are also the bass pedals with 25 or 30. Of course, that’s pretty clobpy.
There are also 5 octaves here at Clavia. 4 would be too little
There are still some people running with a Hammond organ on or with a Wersi with full pedal
Otherwise take a masterkeyboard with div. VST Instruments & MIDI
in the keypad there were advertisements of the ital. Orla Classical series. This is about the M3C distribution Berlin
Here’s a test
https://www.testberichte.de/p/orla-tests/classical-61-testbericht.html
I thought – for example only – to a maximum of 5 registers like Quintadena 8′ Basic 4′ Octave 2′ Flute 4′ shelf 8′. It would be important that what comes out is relatively dry. So little or no hall.]
then you don’t want a keyboard, you don’t want a proper synthesizer, sowads would be possible, but the sound will never get to a real live orgel, it will be imemr only technically generated sound that sounds uach so, the Okatven is not a topic there even with a small keyboard switch over for
the same name will be nich as on the organ.
In ear monitoring?
no cluew as now monitoring should be, but for Kofhörer theresn phones connection, of course nich at all, also have to look whether you want to use extra speakers or have it built in.
How would you set up and serve this is hard to learn? The thing is just I don’t want to do anything else with the keyboard.
User’s manual reads because each system is differently constructed.
then buy ne electone from Yamaha.
There are people who have virtual churches and use such sample sets, usually with very many registers. Some free, some cost 300 euros. I can’t distinguish this from a “right” organ – by far not.
This is just a thing- I don’t want to use any other function than 3 4 5 6 registers and their combinations, of course. So with Oktave I mean ne Oktave as a register.
I don’t have any interest in using any keyboard functions at all, I just want an instrument that can be very little, but it’s okay if it could be more in principle… I just won’t use it and it shouldn’t be too much in the way. So I’d never use an octave switch.
The entire tape uses a common in-ear monitoring system. On stage, it is much too loud in small clubs to use speakers or even monitors.
The question is quasi-how can I use a keyboard as a home organ on the stage- the keyboard is just because it is the cheapest version of anything where you can press down buttons.
This is ten times my budget, and I can’t transport by far, and I just need and want a manual with a small pitch.
If I’m not mistaken, it’s a historical hammond organ, I’m my church organ.
https://www.ebay.de/itm/175315979558?hash=item28d1a58d26:g:3CQAAOSwDURik41y
something like that.