How can I build up my horse's back muscles? Which exercises can I do?
(2 votes)
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Im Internet findest du dazu zB den Longenkurs von Babette Teschen, Videos/Tutorials von Karin Kattwinkel, Trainingspläne von Osteo Dressage. In der Praxis holst du dir jmd, der den Zustand deines Pferdes beurteilen kann (Osteo, Trainer) und dir gezielt zeigt, an was und wie du am besten arbeitest.
Sorry, but you probably don't. No offense, but I ride at the elementary level and wouldn't trust myself to do it on my own. That requires a combination of riding (or handwork) by a professional for the horse and good instruction for the rider. Because everything you and I do on our own, no matter how good the idea may be, isn't much use if the execution isn't correct. The best we can do is maintain what we have. But building it up ourselves…that's difficult.
Kommt auf dein Können und den Ausbildungsstand des Pferdes an, sowie dessen Zustand und Alltag…
Wenn möglich: Cavalettiarbeit, Longieren über Stangen, Gymnastik, Übergänge…
Über Stangen traben gibt dem Pferd auch Bauch Muskeln oder?
Du musst immer beide Muskelgruppen trainieren, also Rücken und den Gegenspieler Bauch…
Typical snarky response from a rebellious teenager. You ask, but don't want to hear an answer that exceeds your self-made horizon.
The abdominal muscles are linked to the back muscles, which support and hold them. Without adequate abdominal muscles, you can't have strong back muscles. Please do your research if you own an animal and want to ride it! This really is basic knowledge.
Nur durch Bauchmuskeln kann das Pferd den Rücken anheben und untertreten. Ist eigentlich ein ganz normaler physiologischer Vorgang…
Excuse me? I'm not guilty of anything, but you're reacting very snippy, which I find unfortunate, since I went to the extra effort to respond and explain.
Targeted, healthy muscle work is very complex, and it takes years to understand and internalize the subject. In addition to training, rest periods are also important, as is proper nutrition, the duration of individual muscle contractions, and their prior tension. I hope you consider this before you approach a horse.
Otherwise, I can only recommend that you hire a good trainer. Yes, they cost money, but you can learn so much from these people, about anatomy, about training, about muscle building and also about beautiful, targeted communication with the horse. I'm always amazed at how much more you can learn, and it's fun too!
Ach lass es einfach!
I did ^^
I politely told you that it would be better to get a trainer if you're not familiar with the vast field of correct muscle work. I can't really tell you, "It's all nonsense," if that's not true…
And I also explained WHY it is important…
Am I not allowed to ask?? You could have answered nicely!!!
Oh, if you're not familiar with targeted, healthy training, please leave it to a professional. Training the protagonist and antagonist muscles is important for balanced muscle tone and also for preventing tension.
Warum den das?
Horses that eat exclusively from the ground usually do not need to be built up much.
So feed on the ground.
By the way, the supporting muscles are not located on the back.
The long back muscle in horses is a long-fibered, very thin muscle that is not designed for weight bearing. The muscle is thinner in horses than in humans.
The supporting muscles are located beneath the torso. They are built up in the same way.
Have your osteopath put together a "tummy, legs, butt" training program for you.
It's best to do this with a trainer.
But by the way, my physio recommended that I take a few steps (3 are enough) uphill on a mountain/hill
Viel v/a, viele verschiedene Untergründe, viele Übergänge, Stangengymnastik etc. Da gibt es so viel…
Viel V/A… denkst du ein Pferd baut über Dehnhaltungen Muskeln auf?
Klar. Nur gedehnte Muskeln können arbeiten und durch das v/a kommt der Rücken automatisch hoch.
Vertical rider? I don't count myself among that. I used to ride classically, too. I was very diligent in all gaits, V/A, and everything else that goes with that.
I consciously decided to choose a different riding style that is good for my horses! And no: I don't exclusively ride with a curb bit, and I don't stretch my horses during my training sessions. I'm happy with my trainer at the time; she opened my eyes and explained and showed me everything, so I also immersed myself in many topics, through studies and reading a lot of books by old riding masters. V/A simply didn't exist back then. And since I switched, I've seen my horses answer the question of which riding style is better for us. A few grams in the hand, always using my aids from the back.
You can incorporate V/A, but not for too long, and I'm not saying never. I don't use it when riding, though; you can do that in the pasture without the rider's weight.
Ja, leider
Forget it…it's a waste of time. Those who live in sectarian structures aren't prepared to engage with a topic in depth anyway. Looking beyond the ideological horizon would be far too risky. 😟
Vertical riders are so convinced of their cause that they do not allow any other thoughts.
If you want to have a riding horse, i.e. real riding horse muscles, you need to be knowledgeable in many areas.
A horse won't build riding horse muscles through poles, especially if it doesn't yet have muscle strength. It will jump on its joints and tendons. Just look at the suspensory ligaments; it will bounce too much/overextend.
V/A is a complete opposite. The neck ligament is completely overstretched and pushes the withers down, which isn't even possible. Besides, V/A hasn't been around for very long, so it's worth looking into studies on it. Stretching positions don't build muscle, especially not riding horse muscles.
Strength training is essential; the horse's muscles need to be stimulated to build up! This won't happen if you let the horse trot on a long rein for minutes, while the horse passively "carries" you.
Necessary rest days, that's when the muscles build up… again and again. Proper feeding with minerals, etc.
I've never heard so much nonsense all at once…how are the withers supposed to come down? The withers are a fixed point in the horse's body. When they do, the spine moves. And when the horse lowers its head, its back automatically rises.
Und Kopf runter Rücken hoch..? Ich bitte dich… Achtest du nur darauf?
Klar kann der Widerrist senken. Woher nimmst du an, das geht nicht?
Ah yes…why should a horse that runs over poles "jump on the joints and tendons"? It just runs over them. And has to lift its legs, which in turn means arching its back. Which is exactly what we want.
What is V/A…? How is making the neck long and low supposed to push the withers down? Quite the opposite! If the head is lowered, the back rises. And why should this overstretch the neck ligament? Horses eat with their heads down practically all day—does that also overstretch the neck ligament…? Of course, stretching postures are necessary to build muscle! Muscles grow through contraction and relaxation—and not just in horses.
You build muscles on the ground. No one sits on it and lets themselves be carried "passively."
That's exactly why! It's about you sitting on a horse weighing 60kg+!!! Especially since it doesn't have the proper muscles to carry you in V/A (that's when it's passive), especially when you're sitting on the neck ligament, which presses on the withers. And no, your horse won't build riding horse muscles with V/A, it doesn't work that way. You have to stimulate the muscles to build them up, or did dear Arnold become the way he is with stretching exercises? That's what riding is for. Dressage is supposed to give the horse the muscle strength it needs to carry a rider healthily…without damage. On the subject of poles… What do you think, does the horse carry if it has no muscles? What are muscles even for? They're supposed to relieve the horse's load so that the joints, ligaments, etc. don't suffer! And that's why you do collected exercises so that the horse can also run pain-free in the pasture. And as horse owners, we have a responsibility to provide that, since many owners want to ride. If it doesn't have muscles that have been developed on the ground, you'll run into the following problems. However, if you let the horse trot over poles without muscles, then take a look to see whether it's a strong muscle-induced torso lift or whether it's just the torso bobbing up and down. The suspensory ligaments are also affected; you can see this very clearly, for example, when trotting, how much the pasterns spring back + with the rider + physics.
So now you've said a lot about how you think it doesn't work, but you haven't answered the question of how to build muscle.
Please answer the question
I wrote. Lessons must be developed that stimulate the muscles and then incorporate rest periods.
This is what happens when V/A is misunderstood and done incorrectly. Every kataft athlete should also stretch the muscles they are strengthening. Stretching doesn't build muscle, of course (no one claimed it would!), but it does provide support. And the horse shouldn't "fall down" in the process; the stretch should only be applied as long as the horse can maintain the upward tendency and rhythm. The withers sinking between the shoulder blades happens when the horse is exhausted from carrying the horse. And a horse can't escape this by going to the other extreme of an excessive, constantly demanded straight posture.
I also have my horse stretch, which is very important! My idea was that if a horse is exhausted from carrying, you can place poles down and then have it run over them at a decent pace, which it's physically not capable of yet. And then only with its head down, because that will put pressure on the neck ligament if its muscles are weak.
Oh God, no – "tugging on the reins and spurring in" is ugly – but it's not collection! Just like CONSTANT uprightness (reading doesn't help, does it…). Self-carriage probably means nothing to you, just like positive tension and closing the horse. And yes, of course I can collect a horse on the neck ring, just like any good rider can with a properly trained horse. But that's not what this is about. It's about training from the bottom up, not the other way around.
But many people say that you should trot diligently over poles if you don't have any muscles, and that's exactly the nonsense that many have suggested here. The FS wanted back muscles, so this is a weak-carrying horse that is probably poorly muscled anyway.
-> and what happens when a weak horse has to trot over poles at a brisk pace?
Yeah, because there's no muscle to support this exercise, the horse will push against its joints (wear and tear). That's why pole work is only intended for advanced horses, which is logical, given the physics that's beyond the horse's control. I think you should know that as a master.
Collection isn't possible without straightness. Well, this means the horse will step far under with its hind legs, and the forehand will lift. And since riding the horse too low generally doesn't lead to muscle development in the active musculature, because horses can quickly end up on their forehands when riding with a front/rear gait, which aren't designed to carry the weight of either the horse or the rider at fast gaits, front/rear gait is simply not beneficial. And no, I'm not a vertical rider.
And pulling the reins and putting in the spurs isn't collection? Is collection, then, if the leg is removed and preferably with a neck ring? If you can ride collection without straightening up, please show me 😂 I think you all think you're an Oliveira rider, but nobody here is talking about this kind of riding.
And you know FS, the horse, and "all of us"—and you know exactly that we work like that. Interesting… I haven't read anything here about sending horses over poles at speed or anything like that, but you probably know what you mean.
Incidentally, as a professional rider and master of horsemanship, and not just since yesterday, I'm also quite familiar with classical riding, and in principle, it's no different from other riding styles: BEFORE a horse can be collected, it must first be enabled to do so. Holding the front and driving the rear IS NOT collection. Nor is constantly keeping the horse in a high position.
Riders often have their own truth, and as long as that leads to the goal—namely, a well-built, relaxed, and easygoing horse capable of carrying a rider while maintaining good health—then everything is fine. Unfortunately, that's often precisely not the case.
in allen Reitweise finden sich Ausbildungsskalen und da steht Versammlung nicht an erster zweiter oder dritter Stelle.
Klar kannst du anpiaffieren – ist halt nicht gesund fürs Pferd.
Oh my god… I'm at a loss for words 😨 Can you imagine that horses were trained to piaffe before they started trotting? You know what you just said: A person can't do squats because they have weak muscles. How do you think you strengthen them? – Keep doing squats. But don't tell me you mean the FN training scale… that's a bit too new for the era of classical riding.
"You can't collect if the muscles aren't there." – Yes, you can, because that creates stronger muscles than you already have, because the horse has muscles to develop hock flexion (knee bends), although not for as long as a fully trained horse, but it can still do it.
But now really: ciao.
Du kannst nicht versammeln wenn die Muskulatur nicht da ist.
Auch i. Der altklassischen Reitweise gilt die AusbildungSkala.
Das du meine Aussagen für falsch hältst liegt wohl eher an dir selber
I can tell from your answers whether you know what you're talking about or not. You're telling me the wrong sequences for various movements and muscles. Above all, you don't understand the old classical riding, which is about collection. Feel free to read books by Guérinière. I won't respond to your answers any further.
😂😂😂😂
Sorry, but how do you know what I can and can't do?
I haven't said a word about my riding knowledge/skills?
That is not up for debate here.
But your answers tell me pretty precisely how your horses are ridden and that will have nothing to do with a properly understood classical riding style.
That just shows me how little you've studied these lessons. I've been studying them for years and I still do, and you? That you tell me which lessons build muscle and which don't, and that you have no idea about the school content if you can't do them yourself.
My horses can perform the school halt, correctly. And yes, you don't see it often because it's incredibly difficult, and almost no riders even want to try such lessons!
And of course, the Spanish walk is a useful exercise, because it raises the withers and the horse doesn't have to step under too much, since stepping under too much doesn't lift anything at the front. Additionally, the horse can show a slight flexion of the hock—I think you know what that means.
The back muscles can lift the croup and forehand. Since we want to lift the forehand, i.e., raise the withers, this involves a lot of back muscle activity. This obviously requires abdominal muscles and back flexors, whose use you must be able to monitor. This is what the piaffe, canter pirouette, or even the mezair are for, as well as other movements that involve hock flexion (like the school halt, for example), and this also applies to lateral movement! If it's done well. Either way, lateral movement is for gymnastics.
You also have no idea what a difference sideways movement can make, especially when it's mastered in all gaits and in every position. For example, it causes hock flexion in the canter—where the abdominal muscles are also tensed, and also in the Grand Passage, for example.
Do you think I don't know how to build muscle? It's obvious that rest days are necessary. My workouts last a maximum of 35 minutes, so my muscles rest for the rest of the day, and probably another day if I notice the muscle soreness is still there.
Have you ever really looked into V/A? Where does it actually come from, and who came up with it?
Would you also like a conclusion from me?
Overall, I find your comments neither helpful nor technically correct.
I'm not questioning you rhetorically, I'd like to have an answer to the question.
Spanish walk is an exercise that requires collection and is therefore impossible for a horse that has no muscles.
Regardless of whether there is a rider sitting on it or not.
Sidesteps, when performed correctly, are a good exercise for shoulder freedom, but for abdominal muscles?
School stop, which rider/horse can still do that today?
And without it, no exercise can build muscle.
Going backwards is definitely useful, but only if the horse is standing straight and its hindquarters are understepped far enough.
Pole work is very useful for both sideways and backward facing dogs.
Muscles are not built up exclusively through tension, but through tension and relaxation.
Likewise, trot/walk transitions or walk/gallop transitions are useful.
No one has to work in a crotch position for weeks and, in the worst case, break it because a wrongly understood posture is required.
Riding out with a correct V/A in walk and trot also builds up great muscles.
And last but not least, correct lunging.
Overall, I find your comments neither helpful nor technically correct
wieso stellst du mir solch rhetorische Fragen?
Man bereitet im schritt vor Seitwärts, spanischer Schritt, Übertreten, Rückwärtsrichten, Schulhalt… Da gibt es so viel, was man im Schritt machen kann.
versammlung baut die muskeln auf und da muss auch noch kein reiter drauf sitzen
Auch das beantwortet die Frage nicht.
Im Gegenteil, willst du versammelnt Reiten braucht das Pferd Bauch und Rückenmuskulatur.
Die musst du also vor der Versammelten Arbeit aufbauen.
Also wie machst du das?!
I work with my two according to the old classical art of riding, which means a lot of collection riding… you can read up on that, it's very interesting in my opinion.
Ja und welche Lektionen sind das deiner Meinung nach.
Das kannst du ja bestimmt ausführen
Du reißt die Punkte aus dem Zusammenhang und würfelst sie in reißerischer Manier zusammen. Versammlung ist Teil der Ausbildungsscala. Allerdings alles zu seiner Zeit und an seinem Platz. Und ja, weil es nicht unmöglich ist, dass FS so wie du einiges falsch interpretiert, was man hier mit ein paar Sätzen zu erklären versucht, sollte man eben IMMER einen guten Trainer vor Ort zurate ziehen. Und das nicht nur fur „ein paar Tips“, sondern für dauerhafte Unterstützung.
Nobody suggests something like that? Everyone says this kind of work builds muscle… lots of V/A, lots of poles, lots of speed, just don't gather… I don't understand it. Especially that I have the nerve to say something like that.
And where do you have the nerve to assume anyone here would recommend it? NO ONE is suggesting anything like that.
mit ”ihr” meine ich leute, die ihr pferd trageerschöpft falsch arbeiten
Professionelle/r Trainer/in